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Barack Obama’s Latest Pastor Problem: Chicago's Rev. James T. Meeks

Chicago, IL — Just as the dust surrounding Sen. Barack Obama's long-term association with controversial minister Rev. Jeremiah Wright has begun to settle comes new reports of the democratic presidential hopeful's connection to another racially divisive public figure—the stridently homophobic Rev. James T. Meeks, an Illinois state senator who also serves as the pastor of Chicago's 22,000 member strong Salem Baptist Church.

Barack Obama :: wikipedia.org
Barack Obama 
credit :: wikipedia.org
Described in a 2004 Chicago Sun Times article as someone Barack Obama regularly seeks out for "spiritual counsel", James Meeks, who will serve as an Obama delegate at the 2008 Democratic convention in Denver, is a long-time political ally to the democratic frontrunner.

When Obama ran for the U.S. Senate in 2003, he frequently campaigned at Salem Baptist Church while Rev. Meeks appeared in television ads supporting the Illinois senator's campaign. Later, according to the same Chicago Sun Times article, on the night after he won the Democratic primary, Sen. Obama attended bible study at Meeks' church ‘for prayer' and ‘to say thank you.'

Since that time, not only has Meeks himself served on Obama's exploratory committee for the presidency and been listed on the Obama's campaign website as one of the senator's ‘influential black supporters', but his church choir was called on to raise their voices in praise at a rally the night Obama announced his run for the White House back in 2007.

Interestingly, the Chicago Sun Times has also reported that both Meeks and Obama share a history of substantial campaign contributions from indicted real estate magnate Tony Rezko.

The problem for Obama is that Rev. James Meeks, like Rev. Jeremiah Wright, preaches a message that appears to be directly at odds with the promise of hope, unity and bridging social, racial and political divisions upon which his campaign is built.

Over the years, Rev. Meeks has garnered significant media attention as a result of a number of racially charged remarks he's made from both behind and out in front of the pulpit. Most notably, in 2006, Meeks came under fire for an inflammatory sermon he gave in which he savaged Chicago mayor Richard Daley and others, including African-Americans who were Daley allies.

In the course of July 5, 2006 attack, Rev. James Meeks ranted:

"We don't have slave masters. We got mayors. But they still the same white people who are presiding over systems where black people are not able, or to be educated."

"You got some preachers that are house niggers. You got some elected officials that are house niggers. And rather than them trying to break this up, they gonna fight you to protect this white man," Meeks said in a sermon tape which he later defended in an interview with Chicago CBS2 reporter, Mike Flannery. 



Perhaps of even more concern than race-baiting diatribes like these is Rev. Meeks disturbing history of antagonism towards the LGBT community.

A spring 2007 newsletter from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) named Meeks one of the "10 leading black religious voices in the anti-gay movement". The newsletter cites him as both "a key member of Chicago's ‘Gatekeepers' network, an interracial group of evangelical ministers who strive to erase the division between church and state" and "a stalwart anti-gay activist… [who]… has used his House of Hope mega-church to launch petition drives for the Illinois Family Institute (IFI), a major state-level ‘family values' pressure group that lauded him last year for leading African Americans in ‘clearly understanding the threat of gay marriage.'"

The SPLC newsletter also noted that, "Meeks and the IFI are partnered with Focus on the Family, the Family Research Council and the Alliance Defense Fund, major anti-gay organizations of the Christian Right. They also are tightly allied with Americans for Truth, an Illinois group that said in a press release last year that ‘fighting AIDS without talking against homosexuality is like fighting lung cancer without talking against smoking.'"

On a more personal level, Meeks has reportedly blamed "Hollywood Jews for bringing us Brokeback Mountain" and actively campaigned to defeat SB3186, an Illinois LGBT non-discrimination bill, while serving in the Illinois state legislature alongside Obama. According to a 2006 Chicago Sun Times article, his church sponsored a "Halloween fright night" which "consigned to the flames of hell two mincing young men wearing body glitter who were supposed to be homosexuals."

And so here we are again confronted with a situation in which Barack Obama's choice of allies is likely to confound voters. Though his relationship with Rev. Meeks is not nearly as significant as his affiliation with "spiritual mentor" Rev. Jeremiah Wright, Sen. Obama's ties to Meeks are nonetheless disconcerting, particularly in the wake of his recent address on race in America and his campaign's early fumble surrounding the decision to invite homophobic gospel artist Donnie McClurkin to perform at a campaign Faith and Family Values fundraiser in South Carolina. 

Some, like CNN contributor Roland S. Martin (who, for the record, is a member of Meeks' Salem Baptist Church), say, as he did in a recent commentary on the cable news network: "Everyone has an association that is open for scrutiny. Our real focus should be on the candidates and their views on the issues, because one of them will stand before the nation and take the oath of office and swear to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States."

But the question remains: At what point must a candidate for the highest office in the United States be held accountable for the small coterie of individuals who make up his or her inner circle and potentially bear influence on his interpretation of the constitution? And at what point does the benefit of the doubt give way to guilt by association?

Moreover, how can a candidate cultivate a constituency like that of Rev. James Meek, essentially espousing a shared belief in their value system, become an effective and powerful advocate on behalf of issues like LGBT rights that run counter to fundamental agenda of that constituency without experiencing severe repercussions? The answer is he can't.

Just as Hillary Clinton cannot cherry pick the successes and pitfalls from her husband's administration that suit her campaign, neither can Barack Obama divorce himself from the implications surrounding the bedfellows he has made over the course of his relatively short political career.

Put even more plainly... Barack Obama can't have it both ways, which increasingly seems to be his campaign's modus operandi.

While it is altogether plausible that, in the spirit of bringing hope and unity, a civil rights leader might sit down with members of white supremacist groups to address racial differences, it is another thing entirely to propose that the same civil rights leader could count any of those white supremacists among his closest friends because he finds them to be inspirational people if, you know, you take that pesky race thing out of the equation.

Similarly, while potentially capable of co-existing peacefully in an environment of mutual respect, the homophobe and the LGBT rights advocate aren't likely to be found cooing at or canoodling with one another in private because they share so many other common interests. Yet these are precisely the kinds of scenarios that Barack Obama asks the American people to accept on faith each and every time unsavory questions arise about the associates with whom he has chosen to surround himself. Ultimately, it is this porous type of reaction that may be Sen. Obama's undoing. But, then again, perhaps not. 

Obama's critically well-received speech on race in response to the Jeremiah Wright scandal seems to have quieted mainstream concern over the senator's views about race while simultaneously forcing the media to tip toe around discussing race as it pertains to his campaign to become the Democratic presidential nominee. So maybe talk about Rev. James Meek and Barack Obama will summarily disappear from the political radar, but one thing is for sure —it shouldn't.

Growing up, my octogenarian grandmother always told me, "If you lie down with dogs, you're going to get fleas." Life and experience have taught me she was right, which says to me that in light of his cozy relationship with anti-gay poster child, Rev. James Meeks, Barack Obama ought to be feeling awfully itchy right about now. 

Written By Duane Wells
Article provided in partnership with GayWebMonkey.com.
 
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You need to chill.. Rev. Meeks is a superdelegate and an Illinois Senator. So this is the only connection he has with him and you want to start some stupid controversy and go up in arms. Look at what Obama has said and what HE has stood for all his life. HE has been there for Gays and Lesbians even when other democrats would not stand with you. His voting record and his inclusion of all people should tell you that you need to look at what the man does not who happened to work with him or where he was standing on the street 20 years ago. Gays and Lesbians should be the first people to (after visible minorities) know when discrimination and bigotry is a foot in a person. It's not there with Barack and look high and low you will not find it in him. He will take a hit with the Republicans for his lifetime support of gays and pro choice stance and you are going to talk about a stupid minister in Chicago that is a co worker in the Senate???? get real. Forget about laying down with dogs...think about laying down with Republicans who will make sure that all Gays lay with flees.
Posted by Karen on Mon, 3/31/2008 7:56 PM
to borrow a phrase from the dear reverend. I think this is a case of the chickens coming home to roost. With Al Sharpton and jesse jackson getting a photo op at every chance when it comes to supposed racism why shouldn't the white majority in this country hold blacks to the same scrutiny. Jena six turned out to be a get out of jail free card for those six thugs that brutally beat the white kid who had nothing to do with the nooses being hung. I think most white people have gotten over this racism thing. We want to move on but there are powerful elements in both the democratic party and the black community that want to keep this alive for either political or monetary reasons. Jackson, Sharpton, Wright, and the like make their living at stirring the pot and you cannot deny that fact.
Posted by the truth on Mon, 3/31/2008 8:50 PM
I know Rev. Meeks and his connection with Obama has disturbed me from the start. It was a tough call to vote for Hillary (I never voted for Bill). Not a chance in hell I'll vote for Obama because of Meeks and Emil Jones.
Posted by cobre on Mon, 3/31/2008 8:55 PM
It's too bad this man turned out to be such a used car dealer type. I almost fell for him. Oh, well, I'll vote for Nader and get drunk on election night.
Posted by PretNearBeanTime on Mon, 3/31/2008 9:11 PM
This is silly. Really grasping at the very last, pathetic straw here.
Posted by BillyJean on Mon, 3/31/2008 9:32 PM
This discussion would all be well and fine if (a) about two-thirds of Americans weren't homophobic, and outspoken about it, and (b) the "guilt by association" campaign against Obama were about religion. But the facts fall apart on both fronts: first, I would be out of a hell of a lot of friends and relatives if I were to purge anyone deemed homophobic. Behind homophobia lies ignorance and fear, so walling these people off doesn't do a damned thing to move forward.

Second, the "pastorgate" fiasco was all about putting a screaming charismatic black preacher in front of White America, and saying "don't trust this Obama guy, he's really just another nigger. They're all screaming niggers inside."

It's true - there's a tremendous amount of homophobia and subsequent scapegoating in the black community. But it's also the poorest, least educated, and most persecuted segment of our society. Don't shoot the messenger - keep your eye on the prize. Read Obama's own words! He said this of his black church:
_____________________________________

"The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America."
_______________________________________

And BTW, look at how the Clintons have used race baiting to take Obama down to their level, and ask yourself if they wouldn't have done that had he been the first gay candidate. If you believe otherwise, you're not paying attention.
Posted by Portland Dude on Mon, 3/31/2008 9:42 PM
Is this the same guy the media called credible when he was accusing the chicago police of racism for pulling him over at three in the morning
Posted by bill on Mon, 3/31/2008 11:33 PM
Seriously? Are we supposed to scrutinize every supporter of every candidate and treat the supporter's words like they are the candidate's own? This is getting absolutely ludicrous. Obama has been very clear about his stance on gay rights. If he wants to cross isles and bring people together, he is going to have to associate himself with some people who have some pretty crazy points of view. I can understand (to an extent) the Wright fiasco, as it was his own pastor, but this is pretty absurd. If you have some evidence of Obama himself saying any of this stuff I'll take it quite seriously, but as soon as every candidate is assumed to support the words of all those they associate themselves with, we know we are distancing ourselves far too much from any substantive issues.
Posted by chris on Mon, 3/31/2008 11:55 PM
Obama, the self-identified unity candidate is fast becoming the most polarizing candidate in recent history. His obliviousness to the problems of maintaining and defending close associations with racist and homophobic Black religious leaders will, ultimately, end his Presidential aspirations.
Posted by Mark California on Tue, 4/1/2008 1:14 AM
Wait, I thought Obama is gay...?
Posted by thinktank on Tue, 4/1/2008 1:18 AM
OBAMA’S RELIGION: WHAT REV. JEREMIAH WRIGHT BELIEVES
News Type: Opinion — Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:26 PM EDT
us-news, election, obama, clinton, race, wright
dugan49
When Jeremiah Wright got into a spitting contest with right wing TV host Sean Hannity last year, he at one point refused to answer Hannity's badgering questions and kept asking Hannity "Have you read James Cone, what do you know about black theology? Have you read Cone? Have you read Cone?Have you read Cone?"
James Cone is one of he founders, some say the founder, of Black Liberation Theology. Rev. Jeremiah Wright's ministry, his beliefs about America, and about life itself are formed by his attraction to and acceptance of the writings of James Cone.
Let's look at some quotes from James Cone.
____________________
"The time has come for white America to be silent and listen to black people."
"All white men are responsible for white oppression. "
"Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man 'the devil.'"
"Any advice from whites to blacks on how to deal with white oppression is automatically under suspicion as a clever device to further enslavement."
"Black suffering is getting worse, not better. . . . White supremacy is so clever and evasive that we can hardly name it." (2004)
" Jesus Christ is black therefore not because of some cultural or psychological need of black people, but because and only because Christ really enters into our world where the poor were despised and the black are, disclosing that he is with them enduring humiliation and pain and transforming oppressed slaves into liberating servants."
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him."
"The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy."
"What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal.
Posted by Fred Jones on Tue, 4/1/2008 1:28 AM
Obama is divisive.
If these people that are close to Obama are the kind of friends the Senator has gone to for advice or solace during his political career, then you DAMNED well better believe he should be held accountable when it is found that these people regularly preach and/or espouse hate.

Obama has been having it both ways his ENTIRE political career. He has played the same old Washington game. He has lied and glad-handed his way to where he is now. He's going to be the lousiest lame-duck president we've ever had.
Posted by Brian on Tue, 4/1/2008 1:57 AM
OBAMA WAS A DIRTY POLITICIAN FROM THE VERY BEGINNING: From the Chicago Sun-Times -- A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: The man now running for president on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it. One of the candidates he eliminated, long-shot contender Gha-is Askia, now says that Obama's petition challenges belied his image as a champion of the little guy and crusader for voter rights. "Why say you're for a new tomorrow, then do old-style Chicago politics to remove legitimate candidates?" Askia said. "He talks about honor and democracy, but what honor is there in getting rid of every other candidate so you can run scot-free? Why not let the people decide?" In a recent interview, Obama granted that "there's a legitimate argument to be made that you shouldn't create barriers to people getting on the ballot." But the unsparing legal tactics were justified, he said, by obvious flaws in his opponents' signature sheets. "To my mind, we were just abiding by the rules that had been set up," Obama recalled. Asked whether the district's primary voters were well-served by having only one candidate, Obama smiled and said: "I think they ended up with a very good state senator." Alice Palmer, a friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was working as a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii and Indonesia. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor, according to news accounts and interviews. But when Palmer got clobbered in that November 1995 special congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat. Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw. "I liked Alice Palmer a lot. I thought she was a good public servant," Obama said. "It was very awkward. That part of it I wish had played out entirely differently." Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. Palmer's elimination marked the first of several fortuitous political moments in Obama's electoral success: He won the 2004 primary and general elections for U.S. Senate after tough challengers imploded when their messy divorce files were unsealed. "He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions." In the end, Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest. All other candidates were disposed of by Obama’s challenges. He then went on to win the election.
http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte
Posted by Fred Jones on Tue, 4/1/2008 2:04 AM
"hollywood jews" - this is a hate monger, plain and simple. barak had better come up with another brilliant speech to keep the liberals who need a messiah - happy.
Posted by not surprised on Tue, 4/1/2008 5:52 PM
Obama’s Money from Islam

Rezko received a $3.5 million loan from London-based IRAQI billionaire Nadhmi Auchi -- a loan that was later forgiven in exchange for shares in a prime slice of Chicago real estate. Rezko gave $700,000 of the money to his wife and used the rest to pay legal bills and funnel cash to various supporters."


These Funds from Auchi's loan helped finance a complex series of transactions between Rezko and Democratic Presidential candidate Illinois Senator Barack Obama involving the 2005 purchase of Obama's Chicago mansion and Rezko's purchase of an adjoining landlocked parcel.

Rezko claims he paid “full market price” and Obama apparently received a “discount” of several hundred thousand dollars for his parcel. Rezko then improved his parcel to benefit Obama.

Instead of handing cash to Obama, Rezko handed Obama a preferential price for property. This is the same form of “honest graft” and preferential treatment that sent former Illinois Governor Otto Kerner to jail over 30 years ago, see United States v. Isaacs, 493 F.2d 1124 (7th Cir. 1974).

The Chicago Sun-Times recently reported that Mr. Rezko, around the same general period he was wheeling with Obama, also provided a preferential price for a property purchase by U. S. Representative Luis Gutierrez.

Instead of transferring cash to buy influence, Rezko was engaging in structured property transactions and preferential treatment of public officials to confer significant financial benefits on them, far above the legal limits of any legitimate political contribution permitted by federal law.

Thanks to the release of Barack Obama's income tax records, we are finally able to get some necessary perspective on the big favor Tony Rezko did for the Obamas in buying what has been termed in the press "the adjacent, undeveloped lot". It turns out this is a seriously misleading description.

Rather than merely purchasing a separate lot, Rezko appears to have purchased the yard of the Obama manse, and allowed them to live in the house+yard property, amounting to a gift (or loan, if you will) of considerable value.

The Obamas' tax returns from 2000-2005 had personal information blanked out, but strangely enough, the 2006 Form 1040 left in the home address.


The feds allege that Mr. Rezko was able to steer state contracts and policy decisions, such as authorization to build hospitals in specific locations, because he was so close to Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich (for whom he was a top fundraiser) and because he was willing to share the graft with his cronies


Rezko's connection to Obama began well before Obama ran for office. Rezko spotted him early, figured he might be a rising star, and helped secure funds for his initial campaigns. As a major mob figure, Rezko's role raises questions because NO one has ever accused him of being a civic-minded fellow who simply enjoys political fundraising because he delights in good government. Skeptical souls want to know what Rezko sought in return for his support and whether he got it?

Mr. Tony Rezko who owns a slum landlord business in inner city Chicago is under indictment in Illinois for seeking to extort money from potential state vendors.

IRAQI billionaire Nadhmi Auchi stills lives in London.
Posted by Thomas Richards on Tue, 4/1/2008 7:05 PM
I'm always perplexed that African-American ministers would align themselves with the white conservatives. It wasn't that log ago blacks weren't allowed in "white" churches. Let's not forget history.
Posted by RyanOH on Tue, 4/1/2008 7:46 PM
the real issue is recognizing demagogues for what they are, especially when they cloak themselves in hypocritical, self-righteous religious poses, and then conflate that with grasping for political power. I think it is indeed incumbent on Obama to call "civil rights leaders" on their hypocrisy in demonizing another group. Basically, religious leaders have too damn much political power in this country, which was even a contributing factor in conning people into supporting the Iraq quagmire
Posted by ne on Tue, 4/8/2008 9:18 AM
When will everyone wake up and realize what we as a nation are doing to ouselves. We judge everyone so fast and think that we have that right. I do believe we need to know about what sort of connections he has made during his time in office. Connections tell alot about a person. Getting up here and trying to smear a person makes you no better than Meeks and his opinion of whites. I'm white and don't have a problem with anyone. I have a problem with throwing stones when no one is really fit to throw them. We have all sinned. Let the news make the connections and let everyone make up there own mind. Sometimes things like this come out for free media attention. What a waste of good media space. How hard would it be for people to post the good things people have done.
Posted by oh please on Wed, 4/9/2008 4:34 PM
Im still waiting to hear what either of them said that wasn't within their rights to say? Hell, I give both of them credit for being willing to share their honest thoughts in front of entire congregations versus the crap these cowards do behind closed doors.

I dare the Republicans to come forward with an attack on religious leaders on the basis of racism. They have a list that will stretch from here to China.
Posted by Syl on Wed, 4/9/2008 6:21 PM
I WOULD LIKE FOR SOMEONE TO ASK SEN OBAMA IS HE GOING TO ALLOW AL AND JESSIE AND FARRAKHAN AND REV MEEKS TO BE IN THE WHITE HOUSE WITH HIM
Posted by JACK on Wed, 4/9/2008 6:58 PM
If Meeks can call out the "N" word then why is it such a big deal if anyone (white, black, Hispanic, Chinese, Japanese) say it. If the Mayor, Governor or any public said the "N" word in a speech then he would be hung out to dry by the whole world. why don't the blacks get over this slave issue and get on with their lives? That was 300+ years ago and you have had a chance to change your lives by going to school and stop expecting the government to give, give and give some more. I have a background of poor parents that were immigrants but they learned to follow the ways of the USA and made sure we went to school and if we got in trouble we respected them but we were also very worried about our punishment. GET A LIFE, PLEASE
Posted by Ann on Wed, 4/9/2008 7:04 PM
Dime con quien te juntas y te dire quen eres/ Tell me who you associate yourself with and that will tell me who you are.
If Obama continues to use the Yes We Can Si Se Puede He and his camp should be culturaly awakend.
Posted by Benita Orozco on Wed, 4/9/2008 11:52 PM
Wow Ann. If you were raped tonight, would you like someone to tell you to "get a life" or "get over that sex issue"? There are real psychological wounds associated w/ slavery. If men at your job treated you with disrespect, you'd be ready to file a complaint to protect your rights. How'd you feel if you complained and no one listened or did anything about the injustice? The sad truth is that's the feeling most minorities - of every race, creed, culture or sex - have about the way this country was founded and continues to be run. It's ignorant statements like yours which further lend credence to their, rather our, feelings. BTW, I'm black and served 21 years, 19 days in the Army to defend your right to say such thoughtless and shallow garbage; you're welcome.

Eric Dawson
Charlotte, NC
A Republican for Obama

PS. You need to get at least a partial refund on your schooling. Slavery officially ended w/ the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution which was ratified in 1865. The Emancipation Proclamation was signed by Abe Lincoln (another Republican) in 1863. Many states ended slavery before that but none 300+ years ago as you stated. Now go crack a book and get your own life.
Posted by Retired_R_Me on Wed, 4/9/2008 11:55 PM
WOW Eric,,you compare a crime committed on a living person with an event no one living today has actually experienced and say this?:

~There are real psychological wounds associated w/ slavery.~

And then you go on to say this:

~If men at your job treated you with disrespect, you'd be ready to file a complaint to protect your rights. How'd you feel if you complained and no one listened or did anything about the injustice?~

Can you please tell me who in America has felt the degredation of 'actual' slavery in the past 100 years?

If not,,maybe you should get a total refund on any money spent for schooling since they evidently did not teach you how to follow logic.
Sure,,you can read and write,,but you just proved you obviously can't think well enough to follow logic in an impartial non emotionally reactive fashion.
Like comparing apples equally to fish,,your statements and reasoning just don't mesh with reasonable logic.
BTW, I look white and never served in the Army.Yet I will defend your right to say such thoughtless and shallow garbage; you're welcome.
As a matter of fact,,I can't enlist,, can't vote and can't get a visa to leave the country.
Why?
I'm equal to all the 'african-americans' who can't do so either because of being a convicted felon,,not because I'm a certain minority,,but,,do we ever hear much about the disenfranchised white felons who can't vote?
NO,,we mainly hear about how such rules affect the 'black minorities'.
Well,,I'm a minority as well,,and It's ignorant statements like yours which further lend credence to the feelings folks have about 'black americans' using alledged racially disparate issues and erroneous logic processing to manipulate people and events to suit and advance their own individual,personal agenda regardless of the inequitity of their assertions being made plain displayed by the facts they present.

Like you saying:
~There are real psychological wounds associated w/ slavery.~
,,as if someone alive today was enslaved like they were years ago when your later statement proved the invalidity of your arguement.

To wit:
~Slavery officially ended w/ the Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution which was ratified in 1865. The Emancipation Proclamation was signed by Abe Lincoln (another Republican) in 1863. Many states ended slavery before that~

So,,who has recieved psychological wounds from personally being a 'slave' in America?

BTW,,are you willing to take responsibilty for the actions of 'Buffalo Soldiers'?
Or do you think it's the white mans fault that the black man helped destroy the red man in America?
How about the 'africans who sold africans' to Muslims and Dutchmen?
Do you feel as responsible for those events as you expect todays LIVING white Americans to feel over the things that happened way back then that YOU want them to feel responsible for?

Do you,my brother?


To end this,,I should say,,'Now go crack a book and get your own life.',,but instead,,since you have obviously proven that book learning didn't institute an ability to think a thought through to a logically sound and rational conclusion in you,,I'll just say,,you owe Ann an apology more than todays white Americans owe one to anyone over what happened way back when NO one today was alive.

Roy Harbin
A DANG-DInGIE American defending an American from an American bashing them for something they didn't have anything to do with.
Now apologise.
YOU did the deed,,on 4/9/08,,not back in pre 1863 America.
If you have an ethical integrity,,you will.IMHsmellyO,,of course.
Posted by Roy Harbin on Thu, 4/10/2008 1:31 AM
Eric, if Ann got raped tonight, I'd have great sympathy for her. If she whined about her great great great great great grandmother getting raped 143 years ago, I'd tell her to "get over it."

I'm not black, but in the last 40 years, I've been treated the way black folks say they have been.

Bussed to a school way out of my neighborhood, called honkey and told by the authorities "too bad", pushed to the back of the line because, even though I had higher scores, I didn't fill the quota, been stared at and intimidated because I was in the "wrong" neighborhood.

I never owned slaves, and don't know if my great (x5) grandparents did. Matter, of fact my ancestors were indentured servants. I never made a noose, never attended a cross burning, never drank from a "white's only" water fountain. The only discriminatory signs I remember were on a Ft. Lauderdale beach back in the 60's. They read, "No dogs or Sailors allowed on beach."

Tough titty. Get over it.

Those who insist upon living in the past will never reach the future.
Posted by Retired-USAF on Thu, 4/10/2008 1:55 AM
"I'm not black, but in the last 40 years, I've been treated the way black folks say they have been."

Okay, this is insulting. I mean, I feel your pain. I've never gone through this. But you're comparing the "oppression" of one person - yourself - to the oppression of an ENTIRE RACE.

"Those who insist upon living in the past will never reach the future."

Hello? You sound intelligent enough, but have you ever taken a psychology class? Don't you know the lasting effects of ABUSE get passed down from generation to generation? Being black, and a product of that abuse, I have had to go to YEARS OF THERAPY to gain the self-esteem and understanding of my self-worth that my mother did not have, because her mother did not have it, because HER mother did not have it.

You don't treat an entire RACE of people as if they are nothing and lower than dirt for centuries, and then expect that it won't have lasting effects. No one's whipping blacks and selling them off any more, but then, it was within this century that blacks were STILL being told they're worthless, sub-human scum of the earth and only fitting for the back of the bus. There are in fact people still alive today who experienced THAT.

And it wasn't just one poor lonely black guy being picked on, in a world where black men own the upper percentage of the country's wealth.

No, it was EVERY black person, getting it from EVERY direction, that they are worthless

worthless

worthless

worthless

and you seriously expect that the psychological affects of this DESTRUCTION of an ENTIRE RACE'S self-esteem won't have ANY lasting effects? That it won't get passed down like a disease from parent to child until such time as some RARE person breaks free?

Study the effects of any abuse. Parents who were abused are 10 times more likely to abuse their children, because it is all they know. Those children too grow up to become abusive parents. So on and so forth. It spreads like a disease, and can last for GENERATIONS before the cycle is broken.

Open your eyes, people. I don't blame you for not wanting to feel guilt. I don't blame you for anything, at all. I don't need enabling - I'm one of those RARE successful people who, with YEARS of personal therapy, got past the belief of generations of my family that blacks could never be as successful as whites and made something of herself.

But I am a fortunate child of chance, and I have a damned good therapist.

Most black kids are destined to spend their most formative years - the younger years when children develop a sense of what reality is - around a generational cesspool of cultural lack of self-esteem and self-worth.
Posted by Misty S. Boyer on Thu, 4/10/2008 5:38 AM
See a copy of the Federal Income Tax Lien for $48,000.00 filed against Rev. Wright at www.webofdeception.com
Posted by Robert Lewis on Thu, 4/10/2008 7:07 AM
i hope you read this. i hope people have enough sense to realize that this silly thinking that obama is the one that can stand up to the maccain campaign, sorry i don't think so. nothing obama does is ever thoroughly scrutinized like the everything misspoken by hillary. if obama attended church for 20 years where wright preaches then he heard like messages, and he still stood for wright and now this other guy. if he is as close to obama as ,he says then he is gonna influence obama and his familys way of thinking. i am so sick of hearing about race it's sickening. we didn't bring the slaves to America. their own tribe chiefs sold them to white traders,this goes on today, all colors being sold , traded, and for what ever use they want to buy them for and age doesn't even matter, but the one thing that really bothers me more than anything...(THE INDIANS) were here first and they don't have half the freedom the blacks have or whites,or any other color. i am sick of the illegal aliens getting everything free and no one does flip about that!, i am sick of the racial slurs period pertaining to color! we all have the freedom of education, i've been there i know! i am sick of the media blasting one candidate and letting another slide for everything. THE STATEMENTS OBAMA'S PREACHERS, his wife made and bill richardson made, they all to me in my opinion which evidently our opinions don't count were treasonous statements. they would have been anway if America were still respected. china is breaking America and so is mexico. so are our American companies selling out to any nation for that all mighty dollar and greed! IF we ever needed GOD, now is one time, we better start turning to him. one woman got GOD out of schools. the satan worshippers and false god worshippers better be opening their eyes and soon!!! i get so tired to of hearing about lewensky, she knew what she was doing with that blue dress, and she has made a fortune, cause she sunk to a trashy level and fame and fortune was what she was after. she didn't care who she hurt. all i can say is GOD BLESS AMERICA< I PRAY! and don't damn it like wright ask you to. GOD BLESS AMERICA and lead her back to you and the roots that our constitution was founded on. we are supposed to be a GODLY nation. There's as much evil if not more in the world than there was in sodom and gomorrah! so, BE CAREFUL!!!!! GOD IS NOT MOCKED!!!!!
Posted by chub on Thu, 4/10/2008 9:34 AM
Friends, it is a very GOOD thing that Obama garners the trust and friendship of people with whom he does not share full visions and values! It’s a good thing that even small minded, divisive, bigoted people allow him in their circles. That is the only way he can ever hope to have a chance to influence them into new ways of thinking. You cannot influence people who don't respect you. Obama is an independent thinker. That is evident in that he didn't line up with the big dawgs on the war (even as a new senator) knowing he would be unpopular amongst his political colleagues who buckled. I am sure most of you would like to be viewed as independent minded. I am sure you too have knucklehead friends and associates but you maintain your love for the whole person and not discard friends and associates with whom you disagree (even when the topic is a hot or serious one). I have friends and family who I love dearly who are just complete asses about homosexuality, race, economic stature – plain asses. If I alienate myself from them I stand no chance ever of influencing them to consider a different perspective. Have faith in someone... have HOPE!!! He’ll be the most able to get even the biggest “asses” to at least listen. THAT ability is talent in a politician! Not the ones who alienate those who are “stupidly” wrong-headed.
Posted by Sigh... on Thu, 4/10/2008 10:10 PM
The authors of this kind of "let's bash somebody propaganda" are too chicken hearted to put their prejudiced names on their nasty lil articles as a Byline they hide behind the name Gaywebmonkey.com. At least Fox and CNN own up to their racism.

If you knew anything about Rev Meeks you would know that he is an equal opportunity sin basher! So look out fornicators, adulterers, liars, cheaters, and gossipers he hit them yesterday.

Come on over to Salem and just look at the people there. The gay parishioners are serving in the different ministries like everybody else, so quit talking about what you really don't have a clue about.

You accuse people of the very hate and prejudice that you spew.

Rev Meeks problem is he wants everybody to repent and conform to the image of Christ and you may not like the way he says it but ain't nothing wrong with saying it!

FYI (Salem's sister church is a white church in the northern suburbs)
Posted by Rose on Mon, 4/14/2008 2:44 AM
sorry Duane I see you did put your name at the bottom, but the rest of the comment stands and stop giving Gaywebmonkey a bad name!
Posted by esoR on Mon, 4/14/2008 2:50 AM
Uh,,Misty,,did your psychotherapist inform you of the dangers of doing to others what you don't want done to you?

Here,,let me show you what I am talking about,,,
You said:
~Hello? You sound intelligent enough, but have you ever taken a psychology class? Don't you know the lasting effects of ABUSE get passed down from generation to generation? Being black, and a product of that abuse, I have had to go to YEARS OF THERAPY to gain the self-esteem and understanding of my self-worth that my mother did not have, because her mother did not have it, because HER mother did not have it. ~

And yet you apparently advocate an equally debilitating scenario for non blacks.
Didn't you say this?:

~You don't treat an entire RACE of people as if they are nothing and lower than dirt for centuries, and then expect that it won't have lasting effects. ~

Oh?Like blaming an entire race for something no 'living' member of that race had anything to do with isn't essentially treating 'them' as though they are so much lower than dirt that 'fairness,truth and equity' aren't something they can rightfully expect from others?
Is that what you are saying is okay to do in order to 'heal' the wounds of one race?

~And it wasn't just one poor lonely black guy being picked on, in a world where black men own the upper percentage of the country's wealth. ~

Who are you expecting to be 'held responsible' for that?Will you 'blaming' the poor lonely white guy in todays world for the deeds of 'rich,white folks' back in THAT world make you any LESS bigoted and racist than you just indicted the whole white race as being over this issue?


~No, it was EVERY black person, getting it from EVERY direction, that they are worthless

worthless

worthless

worthless

and you seriously expect that the psychological affects of this DESTRUCTION of an ENTIRE RACE'S self-esteem won't have ANY lasting effects? That it won't get passed down like a disease from parent to child until such time as some RARE person breaks free? ~

And here you are advocating doing the same thing you claim is bad to do to 'blacks',,is obviously just fine with you to do to 'white folks today',,which will insure future 'whites' being raised with the idea that they are worthless

worthless
worthless
worthless

because of something their ancestors did back when 'slavery' was LEGAL and a world wide accepted practice.

Isn't that as equally abusive as what you claim you are trying to 'end' with your arguments?

Didn't YOU Say?:

~Study the effects of any abuse. Parents who were abused are 10 times more likely to abuse their children, because it is all they know. Those children too grow up to become abusive parents. So on and so forth. It spreads like a disease, and can last for GENERATIONS before the cycle is broken. ~

~Open your eyes, people. I don't blame you for not wanting to feel guilt. I don't blame you for anything, at all. I don't need enabling - I'm one of those RARE successful people who, with YEARS of personal therapy, got past the belief of generations of my family that blacks could never be as successful as whites and made something of herself. ~

And yet,,after all that,,you are doing it to another race.
Now,,I don't blame you for exhibiting that 'hypocrisy'.I realize you have been 'manipulated' by those who also have been seduced into applying that 'erroneous thinking' by those 'leaders' who have managed to subvert the 'very real issues' left from the 'slavery' issue into a set of political power leveraging tools.
But,,I do blame you for falling for it.
After all,,you are enabling the 'leaders' to continue using the divisiveness inherent in their 'displayed ideologies' to keep such folks as YOU And I separated on the issue of 'equitable treatment' for all humans involved in this matter,,today.

~Most black kids are destined to spend their most formative years - the younger years when children develop a sense of what reality is - around a generational cesspool of cultural lack of self-esteem and self-worth.~

Stop and think a minute Misty.

Does not what you are saying in regards to the issue set the stage for 'most white kids' being destined to spend their most formative years,,the younger years when children develop a sense of what reality is - around a generational cesspool of cultural lack of self-esteem and self-worth brought on by them being held responsible for something they had nothing to do with?

And that makes things better?
How?
Or is it okay to you,,because it's white kids it will happen to?

Roy Harbin
Posted by Roy H. on Wed, 4/16/2008 9:36 AM
What asinine comments. Regardless of when 'slavery' 'officially' ended, racism was still institutionalized and accepted as the norm in most of the country until the 1960s. The Civil Rights bill was passed in 1964, which was the tool utilized to finally start reforming the country at large. 40 years later, significant progress has been made but who is delusional enough to think that there is not a segregationist attitude throughout large portions of the country today?

The proposition that slavery as an actual legal institution is the barometer for measuring the legitimacy of complaints made by a racial community is ludicrous. "Get over it." How utterly un-empathic and self-serving. Maybe in 2060, once further progress is made, such a statement may not be so callous.
Posted by JC on Tue, 4/29/2008 12:14 PM
My goodness. Such agruments over something that most of you have never exprienced. I am half colored and because my father was in the military I ended up in South Carolina back in 1960 to attend school. Unfortunately, the civil rights was not enforced and I got my ass kicked by white anglo-saxons over and over again. Do I hate them, No. Why, because this was the time of bigotry, and those times are gone. You see colored americans in positions as nurses, doctors, attorneys, anchormen and women, etc. etc., those days are over. Rev Wright and Meeks are in the past and are bringing hate back to our lives. The only people that are jumping up and down in their churches are bigots- blacks that are either on food stamps, welfare, single mothers, and abusive men. They enjoy the hate within them. I am sure that if you find one attorney in the entire congregation it would be odd, with the exception of the biggest bigot, Michelle Obama.
Posted by Soldier of Christ on Tue, 4/29/2008 2:39 PM
The reality is that there is racism in American today but it is not as much white to black as it is black to white. Churches that let Meeks and Wright should loose their tax exemption status. The church is NOT a place for hate but for peace and should not be a place of division but a place where people can be united. The New Testament teaches that "God is no respector of persons" and that should be the message of the church. Not hate and NOT politics!
Posted by Rick on Tue, 4/29/2008 3:11 PM
Roy Harbin:

I read your babble. Stop pulling your prick. Aren't you aware you will go blind if you do not stop? You need a brain transplant. Life is not a zero sum game as you would like to imagine. It is ok for us all to be raised up. It is not necessary to belittle any person or group in order to feel self worth. So let go of your joint because it obviously has already damaged your brain.
Posted by David on Tue, 4/29/2008 4:12 PM
I forgot to tip my hat to the eternal race hustlers: all time champion, Jesse Jackson, man without a moral compass, Al Sharpton and last but not least the hate filled destroyer, Louis Farakahn. These men are out to line their pockets and create as much division and hatred in the world as possible. Those gullible blacks that buy into the sophistry of these race hustlers are hurting themselves.
Posted by David on Tue, 4/29/2008 4:24 PM
Lets not forget that asians were used as slave labor in this country. Treated and paid horribly, and even rounded up like animals 50 years ago and caged in concentration camps. But have you ever heard ONE of them crying and whining and expecting reparations or a free ride. Not to mention a handicap sticker so they can park the Escalade up close to the market. Its time to GET OVER IT afro-americans. Whites, latins, asians and the rest of us are finally getting tired of your bull-shi* and seeing what you really are. Pull yourself up, its not our job to do it. Stop blaming everyone and everything else.
Posted by Hidenori on Tue, 4/29/2008 9:50 PM
I CAN NOT BELIEVE WHAT IS GOING ON WHAT DO THEY WANT EVERYTHING TO BE FREE TO THEM OH YOU DONT HAVE TO WORK LIVE FOR FREE OH YOU CAN GO TO SCHOOL FOR FREE...WELL IT ISNT LIKE THAT FOR EVRYONE ELSE WHY YOU...YOUR ANCESTORS WORKED THERE AZZ OFF NOT YOU AND THEY WORKED FOR FREEDOM AND THEY GOT WHAT THEY WORKED FOR YOU YOU WORK FOR A LIVING SO SHUT THE SHELL UP
Posted by CANTBELEVETHISSTUFF on Tue, 4/29/2008 11:31 PM
JC:
~What asinine comments.~

Which ones?


~Regardless of when 'slavery' 'officially' ended, racism was still institutionalized and accepted as the norm in most of the country until the 1960s. The Civil Rights bill was passed in 1964, which was the tool utilized to finally start reforming the country at large. 40 years later, significant progress has been made but who is delusional enough to think that there is not a segregationist attitude throughout large portions of the country today?~

But,,but,,who would be naive enough to believe it exists in only such portions of one race?

~The proposition that slavery as an actual legal institution is the barometer for measuring the legitimacy of complaints made by a racial community is ludicrous.~

What kind of complaints?
Complaints about being forced or fooled into slavery?
Or,,complaints about discrimination based on skin color?
What color?


~"Get over it." How utterly un-empathic and self-serving.~

Considering the fact that psychologically,,the goal of any one affected adversely by anything is,,to heal,,as in 'get over it',,I have to agree,,it is self serving.

~Maybe in 2060, once further progress is made, such a statement may not be so callous.~

Why?
If it's NOT valid,appropriate and truthful NOW,,it won't be then,,will it?
But can it truthfully be called callous,,if one has enough compassion to truthfully wish to see (and help) the 'victim' of adversity,,'get over' the adversity?
But,,please tell me,,how else does one 'get past damage',,if they do not wish to,,and strive to,,'get over it'?

-
Now for:
~David on Tuesday, 4/29/2008
Roy Harbin:
I read your babble. Stop pulling your prick. Aren't you aware you will go blind if you do not stop? You need a brain transplant. Life is not a zero sum game as you would like to imagine. It is ok for us all to be raised up. It is not necessary to belittle any person or group in order to feel self worth. So let go of your joint because it obviously has already damaged your brain.~

Huh?
I'm sorry,,I didn't understand you,,you're underwear is muffling your mouth.

All levity aside,,what are you talking about?
From your second post above,,it seems you think I was saying something I wasn't.After all,,didn't you read where I typed this to Misty?:
(Now,,I don't blame you for exhibiting that 'hypocrisy'.I realize you have been 'manipulated' by those who also have been seduced into applying that 'erroneous thinking' by those 'leaders' who have managed to subvert the 'very real issues' left from the 'slavery' issue into a set of political power leveraging tools.
But,,I do blame you for falling for it.
After all,,you are enabling the 'leaders' to continue using the divisiveness inherent in their 'displayed ideologies' to keep such folks as YOU And I separated on the issue of 'equitable treatment' for all humans involved in this matter,,today.
)

Now,,doesn't that 'conceptually match' this that you typed?:
~These men are out to line their pockets and create as much division and hatred in the world as possible. Those gullible blacks that buy into the sophistry of these race hustlers are hurting themselves.~

,,,so,,can you please elucidate as to what you are talking about or do you just find it necessary to belittle a person in order to feel self worth?
Or,,,are you davik from the excite.com boards?
If you are,,,and it seems likely,IMHsmellyO,since your childish display matches his common fare quite well,,you are embarrasing yourself here just like you do there so often.Yet,,sadly,,as usual,,you probally don't even realize it.

Roy Harbin
Posted by Roy Harbin on Thu, 5/1/2008 2:21 AM
I've learned not to waste my time debating obamabots. They're completely devoid of objectivity. This democrat will be watching the elections from the sidelines with a bag of popcorn.
Posted by chuck on Mon, 6/2/2008 3:35 PM
Rev. Meeks should prioritize: The Chicago Phoenix reported that Reverend James Meeks, Salem Baptist Church, is leading a coalition of Black churches that have “recently threatened to take away their congregations’ support and even bar the lawmakers from attending their churches if they vote to approve gay and lesbian nuptials.” Now, before we go any further I’d like to share some statistics with you. More here..http://liveitloveitdoit.com/site/2013/03/chicagos-rev-meeks-leads-a-campaign-against-homosexuality/
Posted by LiveItLoveItDoItDotCom on Tue, 3/26/2013 10:50 AM
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